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Feeders Discussion on feeding roaches to other animals.

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  #1  
Old 08-05-2007, 12:58 PM
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Default nutritional analysis of feeder roaches

Does any one know if there has been a analysis done for the nutritional value of feeder roaches? I've seen comparitive analysis for crickets vs. silkies, supers, mealies, phoenix, and butter (trevo) worms, but nothing for roaches. Even many sites that were selling them lacked this info and had no idea if it even existed. Also, and I know I'm really pushing my luck here, BUT... what about the effect that different diets have on the nutritional makeup of the feeders. I've read in several places that roaches are a high meat to shell ratio feeder, I've just had no luck in determining what the composition of that "meat" is. Any info I can glean from the experts here would be greatly appreciated. THX
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Old 08-06-2007, 04:09 AM
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http://doubleds.org/contactus.html

Best wishes
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Old 08-06-2007, 05:39 PM
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I've read one article that did a nutrient analysis of Rhyparobia maderae. They offered diets with different amounts of proteins and carbohydrates, but they found that the roaches would still manage to end up with a protein-carbohydrate ratio of 25:75.
"Diet Balancing in the Cockroach Rhyparobia madera: Does Serotonin Regulate This?" by Randy W. Cohen. Journal of Insect Behavior 14:99-111, 2001.

This is one reason why I'm against commercial gutloads. It assumes that people know what is the optimal diet for their roaches, when the roaches are capable of finding their optimal diet if they have a variety of foods at their disposal. When all the ingredients are blended up into a powder, the roaches lose that ability to regulate their own nutritional requirements.

Another question to ask is what good does a nutrition analysis do if there have been no studies done on the nutrition requirements of the herps and arachnids you're feeding? One feeder may be higher in fat than protein, but what if that is better for your pet? In my mind, you have to look at the overall physiology of the feeders and also try to stay close to what kinds of foods are more natural for your herps and arachnids. For example, if a gecko naturally eats grasshoppers in the wild, it would be more sensible to offer it crickets than worms because at least crickets are closely related to grasshoppers.

I'm aware of DoubleD's feeder analysis on their site, but I'm still skeptical about it since they won't disclose the source of info, the methodology, how many and what kinds of samples were used, etc. Actually, very few feeder businesses do when they offer their analysis charts.
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:05 AM
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Sorry, I was in a hurry when I posted the link so I only gave him what he wanted.
But it is as you say, Olivia. Their analysis is highly questionable. (Correct choice of words?)

I have also read the article about the R.maderae and it's a very interesting article.
There are more articles about cockroaches diet, but many of them are unfortunatelly very difficult to get, because most of them are only abstracts and not full articles. You'll need a subscription? in order to read the full article or know the right persons to ask

I wish I could talk about this topic with ease, but I feel very unsecure writing and talking in English which makes me very frustrated.
My friends Daniel and Andreas (also members of this forum) knows how many hours I have spent in order to find out more about the nutrional needs for cockroaches. So I really wish I could talk more about this, because there are so much more to know about cockroaches (and other insects as well) that most people doesn't think of.

Cat/dog food and carrots works, yes, but it's far from their optimum diet.

Best wishes
Fredrik
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:58 AM
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Hi Fredrik! I don't think you need to feel apprehensive at all about your English. You write very clearly--in fact, more clearly than many native English speakers.

I'm fortunate that as a college student, it's easy for me to access scientific articles through the school. Otherwise, you might check to see if the public library has access to databases so you can avoid having to pay for the articles. I wouldn't feel right posting copyrighted content on the forums, so if anyone ever needs a copy of an article I refer to, I might be able to e-mail a pdf.
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:37 PM
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Some of the zoo journals have nutritional fact sheets that I'd trust, but the problem is that the diversity of roach species in the hobby is far larger than the number even looked at by science! The is no way the nutritional information for South American species from the rain forests is the same as those from the deserts of Africa! Uric acid content alone would indicate that.

If I get a moment, I'll try to look up some articles on this.
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esotericman View Post
If I get a moment, I'll try to look up some articles on this.
That would be awesome. I did come across one nutritional analysis on Periplaneta americana, but that's still so different from the common feeder roaches, except for maybe lateralis.
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Old 08-12-2007, 08:29 PM
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Post nutritional diversity between common feeder species

I feed my beardies a variety of insects ; supers, silkies, white mealies, crix, phoenix worms, and occasional trevo (butter) worms. Other than the phoenix and butter worms I breed these myself. Is there enough difference between the common feeder roaches (discoid, dubai, lobsters) that adding more than one species will help with nutritional diversity (I am going to eliminate crix). If not, would feeding each different diets have a significant effect on their nutritional value. Based on the original answer to my "nutritional analysis of feeder roaches" thread ( by the esteemed bugchick!!!!) I am geussing the answer would be no, but I'm a bit hard headed


I may be crazy but a lot of my herper buddies just love me....they're crazy too
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:38 PM
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My opinion would be that multiple species of feeder roaches would be redundant, unless you were offering them for enrichment reasons (ie: different sizes/speeds...some fly...different colors...etc.).
It is my opinion that, more important then the variety of insects we feed to reptiles, is the quality of the gutload.
I think variety is extremely important , as well as knowing the nutritional value of a particular feeder, but this is bumped up considerably when the insect is packed full of a good gutload.

-Brad
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:08 AM
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Has anyone looked at uric acid storage in roaches versus crickets? It seems all that waste in the roaches would be variable based on native habitat of those roaches, as it is based on availability of water.

I have some digging to do.
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